I’m going to throw in another perspective as a ‘content producer’ (my pothole posts are things of legend on FaceBook)…and also as an erstwhile booker/promoter. In those latter roles I recently got asked by the mum of a talented young musician for tips on getting gigs.. one of my stock answers here is ‘live footage of the band performing to a responsive crowd’. In the former role I’ve been paid to go to festivals specifically to shoot ‘fan style content’ on mobiles from within the crowd (not stuff that looks professionally done) so that the event has ‘genuine’ content for their social channels. Some of these clips have gone million+ viral. But I’ve never had one complaint from anyone captured in these… and in all the years I’ve been dodging through circle pits and whizzing up and down the front barrier I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who’ve asked me not to use a shot of them. And I’ve immediately deleted the clip. Now we get into the grey area. I am (I think/hope) a responsible documenter of live events. I’m not trying to get laughs from a cruel audience by filming awkward moments. I’m trying to capture the joy and the energy that can only be found in the middle of a single-minded crowd who are brought together by songs. But where does this morph into the dark waters described in the post? I know there are definitely some people for whom this is an issue… but when you go to a big gig or festival with stage cameras panning across the audience is there anything fundamentally different between that and the person next to you with a phone? Even small venues these days often have fixed cameras filming all of the action so the band can have it as a takeaway benefit for future marketing. So in summary I don’t think this is a simple yes/no debate. It’s a bigger discussion of intent, consent, ethics, responsibility, empathy, and good old common sense. Some guidelines… but maybe not so far as strict controls, as that could have unintended consequences that would stifle event, venue, and band marketing opportunities in a world now dominated by the flip of the algorithm switch. In simple terms… if you don’t want to be filmed you need to be empowered by societal norms to “just say no”, and if you are the filmer and refuse to stop then maybe some form of punitive action might be warranted… what that might be I’m not sure. But it’s a bit like ‘no public drinking’ laws. In reality these don’t generally make it a crime to consume alcohol in public, but if you are asked to stop and refuse then that refusal is the offence. As a PS… if we want MORE dancing we need more MIRRORBALLS… officially listed by the Australian government as things that ‘may lead to dancing’ (and therefore to be removed).
The same may apply for those making music as well, who’re influenced to create their own, or share these ‘fan videos’ by their ‘team’ in order to show worth or value of their work. This can stifle the creative process - get in the way - in the same way that the lack of audience movement/dance might get in the way of the ‘pro-creative’ process.
This shit won’t go away, but having an alternative is hugely important, and the sooner people realise it’s cool(er) to be ‘in’ the moment than trying to capture it, the better.
Take a look at my response… as someone who is in it and capturing it at the same time… and think back to those grainy videos of Woodstock. Would the world be richer without them??
As a musician I usually get out of the dancing, thankfully — I'm the one making everyone else do it. It all felt less self-conscious before everyone filmed everything, mind you. I play originals and functions, and I've not noticed any drop in people embarrassing themselves on wedding dance floors (the free bar surely helps). Which makes me wonder if it's less the phones than the permission — a wedding's as phone-saturated as anywhere (indeed, a professional photographer is usually there!) but people pile on anyway because everyone's drunk, half-related, and the stakes of looking stupid are nil. Your small-room point, basically. Weddings aside, though, I think you're right that modern life has made us more self-aware about dancing in public. And as you say, it's really good for you. I wish I was better at it. But then, who would stand at the side and judge?!
Amen. And as someone who enjoyed Madness at Abbey Park last night, yes! I know we’re not the generation to give a flying f&@: about dancing and putting our phones away BUT it was a pleasure to do so with so many people at once. My other observation from last night was; where are the mainstream bands that encourage working class men to sing and dance together like this!? It was a pleasure to see men let loose, sing, hug, and bounce about like they were all 15 again. 🙌🏼
I’m going to throw in another perspective as a ‘content producer’ (my pothole posts are things of legend on FaceBook)…and also as an erstwhile booker/promoter. In those latter roles I recently got asked by the mum of a talented young musician for tips on getting gigs.. one of my stock answers here is ‘live footage of the band performing to a responsive crowd’. In the former role I’ve been paid to go to festivals specifically to shoot ‘fan style content’ on mobiles from within the crowd (not stuff that looks professionally done) so that the event has ‘genuine’ content for their social channels. Some of these clips have gone million+ viral. But I’ve never had one complaint from anyone captured in these… and in all the years I’ve been dodging through circle pits and whizzing up and down the front barrier I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who’ve asked me not to use a shot of them. And I’ve immediately deleted the clip. Now we get into the grey area. I am (I think/hope) a responsible documenter of live events. I’m not trying to get laughs from a cruel audience by filming awkward moments. I’m trying to capture the joy and the energy that can only be found in the middle of a single-minded crowd who are brought together by songs. But where does this morph into the dark waters described in the post? I know there are definitely some people for whom this is an issue… but when you go to a big gig or festival with stage cameras panning across the audience is there anything fundamentally different between that and the person next to you with a phone? Even small venues these days often have fixed cameras filming all of the action so the band can have it as a takeaway benefit for future marketing. So in summary I don’t think this is a simple yes/no debate. It’s a bigger discussion of intent, consent, ethics, responsibility, empathy, and good old common sense. Some guidelines… but maybe not so far as strict controls, as that could have unintended consequences that would stifle event, venue, and band marketing opportunities in a world now dominated by the flip of the algorithm switch. In simple terms… if you don’t want to be filmed you need to be empowered by societal norms to “just say no”, and if you are the filmer and refuse to stop then maybe some form of punitive action might be warranted… what that might be I’m not sure. But it’s a bit like ‘no public drinking’ laws. In reality these don’t generally make it a crime to consume alcohol in public, but if you are asked to stop and refuse then that refusal is the offence. As a PS… if we want MORE dancing we need more MIRRORBALLS… officially listed by the Australian government as things that ‘may lead to dancing’ (and therefore to be removed).
The same may apply for those making music as well, who’re influenced to create their own, or share these ‘fan videos’ by their ‘team’ in order to show worth or value of their work. This can stifle the creative process - get in the way - in the same way that the lack of audience movement/dance might get in the way of the ‘pro-creative’ process.
This shit won’t go away, but having an alternative is hugely important, and the sooner people realise it’s cool(er) to be ‘in’ the moment than trying to capture it, the better.
Take a look at my response… as someone who is in it and capturing it at the same time… and think back to those grainy videos of Woodstock. Would the world be richer without them??
As a musician I usually get out of the dancing, thankfully — I'm the one making everyone else do it. It all felt less self-conscious before everyone filmed everything, mind you. I play originals and functions, and I've not noticed any drop in people embarrassing themselves on wedding dance floors (the free bar surely helps). Which makes me wonder if it's less the phones than the permission — a wedding's as phone-saturated as anywhere (indeed, a professional photographer is usually there!) but people pile on anyway because everyone's drunk, half-related, and the stakes of looking stupid are nil. Your small-room point, basically. Weddings aside, though, I think you're right that modern life has made us more self-aware about dancing in public. And as you say, it's really good for you. I wish I was better at it. But then, who would stand at the side and judge?!
Amen. And as someone who enjoyed Madness at Abbey Park last night, yes! I know we’re not the generation to give a flying f&@: about dancing and putting our phones away BUT it was a pleasure to do so with so many people at once. My other observation from last night was; where are the mainstream bands that encourage working class men to sing and dance together like this!? It was a pleasure to see men let loose, sing, hug, and bounce about like they were all 15 again. 🙌🏼