I absolutely love the way you have laid this all out. For 3/4 years now I have been supporting grassroots artists and venues. It pains me to see this situation and I really want to thank you for everything you are doing to highlight this desperate situation.
It feels as though the likes of Live Nation and a lot of other big stakeholders love the sound of their own goodwill when they say that they support the levy but then it appears that nothing gets done about.
Perhaps a way of getting this done (which kind of makes it a mandate) is to have the biggest artists and their agents agree to include a clause their performance contracts that the tickets for the arena and stadium shows that they play must include a levy for grassroots music.
That, or perhaps an outside intervention from someone from LIVE UK who comes into each of these companies and ‘helps’ them to bake the levy into their policy and processes for setting up tickets for shows.
Of all of the 7% of tickets that include a levy thus far, I’d love to know who the companies were and whether the engagement with the idea is in correlation with how much air time the levy is getting in the media at a given time.
A bit like how social media trends around current affairs spike and then gradually abate as the next unjust atrocity enters from the wings.
Maybe that's the solution? Reach out to name artists who could be supportive and have them not only pressure concert promoters but also help spread awareness? I feel that a big PR campaign to educate the general public about this might go a long way. I'm incredibly impressed with all the work MVT is doing, but I'm sure their resources are limited. Maybe having a few name artists on board could really take this to the next level and put public pressure on promoters. As it is I feel it's only too easy for them to ignore it since there is no real fear of a backlash against doing so. Put simply,not enough people know about this momentous campaign imo.
It’s absolutely ludicrous. It’s just shortsighted, BAD business.
Most, if not all, audience members and music lovers want to pay that levy to grassroots initiatives and help. Not inflate the pockets of ticket companies and bloated corporations. This HAS to stop.
As someone who goes to a lot of concerts of all sizes - from Green Note to Wembley Stadium - I don't understand why the big bosses in the music industry (like Live Nation) fear this levy so much. I believe that they say they are for the levy, because they would look bad if they weren't seen as trying to be helpful. But in reality, they are against it. They have been against it from the beginning. They have been fighting it and rubbishing MVT relentlessly for it. The mood has recently started to turn against them, so they changed their official position. But this is just a PR move, not a genuine attitude change. They are still dead set against the levy. So now they are stalling for time and paying it a lot of lip service, but not implementing it.
If I ever had a chance to speak to the top management at Live Nation, I would tell them how wrong they are. They do not need to worry about making the tickets unaffordable for the fans. If I can spend £50 for a ticket, I can easily spend £51. If I can spend £250 for a ticket, I can easily spend £251. If I can spend £3,500 on golden hospitality ticket, then I can spend £3,501. Live Nation is wrong about worrying that £1 will make the tickets unaffordable. What really makes the tickets unaffordable are things like dynamic pricing, the law still allowing ticket touts to sell the tickets above the face value and things like VIP/hospitality/priority/golden circle etc. Live Nation doesn't care about UK music industry at all. They know that if the UK music industry dies, they will simply import musicians from abroad. We will have American/Australian/European musicians instead of British. Live Nation doesn't care as long as they make their profits. It is a great shame. UK has produced some of the best music in the world.
Live Nation doesn't care about the UK creative sector. More worryingly, they don't really understand it. If Live Nation thinks that £1 levy will put the fans out of pocket, then they are completely out of touch with reality. If they think that £1 will mean that fans will stop buying tickets, then they don't understand their fans at all. They have genuinely no idea how the fans feel.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
I absolutely love the way you have laid this all out. For 3/4 years now I have been supporting grassroots artists and venues. It pains me to see this situation and I really want to thank you for everything you are doing to highlight this desperate situation.
It feels as though the likes of Live Nation and a lot of other big stakeholders love the sound of their own goodwill when they say that they support the levy but then it appears that nothing gets done about.
Perhaps a way of getting this done (which kind of makes it a mandate) is to have the biggest artists and their agents agree to include a clause their performance contracts that the tickets for the arena and stadium shows that they play must include a levy for grassroots music.
That, or perhaps an outside intervention from someone from LIVE UK who comes into each of these companies and ‘helps’ them to bake the levy into their policy and processes for setting up tickets for shows.
Of all of the 7% of tickets that include a levy thus far, I’d love to know who the companies were and whether the engagement with the idea is in correlation with how much air time the levy is getting in the media at a given time.
A bit like how social media trends around current affairs spike and then gradually abate as the next unjust atrocity enters from the wings.
Maybe that's the solution? Reach out to name artists who could be supportive and have them not only pressure concert promoters but also help spread awareness? I feel that a big PR campaign to educate the general public about this might go a long way. I'm incredibly impressed with all the work MVT is doing, but I'm sure their resources are limited. Maybe having a few name artists on board could really take this to the next level and put public pressure on promoters. As it is I feel it's only too easy for them to ignore it since there is no real fear of a backlash against doing so. Put simply,not enough people know about this momentous campaign imo.
Maybe this is where the patrons step in? Some have already but a combined patrons campaign would boost the PR?
It’s absolutely ludicrous. It’s just shortsighted, BAD business.
Most, if not all, audience members and music lovers want to pay that levy to grassroots initiatives and help. Not inflate the pockets of ticket companies and bloated corporations. This HAS to stop.
Amazing article. Thank you for all you do. I will have more to say later, questions etc.....thank you....
As someone who goes to a lot of concerts of all sizes - from Green Note to Wembley Stadium - I don't understand why the big bosses in the music industry (like Live Nation) fear this levy so much. I believe that they say they are for the levy, because they would look bad if they weren't seen as trying to be helpful. But in reality, they are against it. They have been against it from the beginning. They have been fighting it and rubbishing MVT relentlessly for it. The mood has recently started to turn against them, so they changed their official position. But this is just a PR move, not a genuine attitude change. They are still dead set against the levy. So now they are stalling for time and paying it a lot of lip service, but not implementing it.
If I ever had a chance to speak to the top management at Live Nation, I would tell them how wrong they are. They do not need to worry about making the tickets unaffordable for the fans. If I can spend £50 for a ticket, I can easily spend £51. If I can spend £250 for a ticket, I can easily spend £251. If I can spend £3,500 on golden hospitality ticket, then I can spend £3,501. Live Nation is wrong about worrying that £1 will make the tickets unaffordable. What really makes the tickets unaffordable are things like dynamic pricing, the law still allowing ticket touts to sell the tickets above the face value and things like VIP/hospitality/priority/golden circle etc. Live Nation doesn't care about UK music industry at all. They know that if the UK music industry dies, they will simply import musicians from abroad. We will have American/Australian/European musicians instead of British. Live Nation doesn't care as long as they make their profits. It is a great shame. UK has produced some of the best music in the world.
Live Nation doesn't care about the UK creative sector. More worryingly, they don't really understand it. If Live Nation thinks that £1 levy will put the fans out of pocket, then they are completely out of touch with reality. If they think that £1 will mean that fans will stop buying tickets, then they don't understand their fans at all. They have genuinely no idea how the fans feel.
Thank you for the update Mark. How much money is in the fund currently and how does that amount compare to your needs assessment?
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Hi Mark, this sounds like a typical ILMC debate - all of the agents and promoters say 'yeah, yeah, yeah' and then carry on doing things exactly as before.
Your figures don't surprise me at all. I wonder how many agents are asking their acts, at the point of setting up arena or stadium shows, if they would support a levy on ticket sales. Or how many promoters are asking the agents if they would like a show costing with a levy included or excluded. A lot of theses shows are with artists not based in the UK, and booked through non-UK agents, so the channels of communication for accepting a levy benefitting the UK grassroots live industry are very weak.
What also has to be remembered is that someone has to pay for the levy. A typical arena / stadium deal will give the artist 85 - 90% of the profit, so it's not the promoter who's going to bear the majority of the cost. It either comes out of the artist's earnings ( and these have to cover all of the production and other touring costs ), or it gets added to the ticket price. As with the debate on ticket pricing and allocation, it's the promoters who usually get the blame, but it's actually the artists and their agents who make the decisions.
The only way I see this happening is with the support of government. It should be set up as a levy made by the operators of all arena and stadium venues ( not by the promoters of the shows at these venues ). This would make it a cost of doing business at these venues, so would automatically feed through into the promoter's costing and offer made to the artist's agent. It would then apply to ALL shows, not just those with artists who publicly support a levy. If it can't be agreed to and signed up on a voluntary basis by all of the relevant members of the Association of Venue Organisers, then government should make it compulsory. Once it's in place, then I think there would be very little moaning, and everyone will say 'what a great idea'.
Bam.